I set up for the next rules - Fantasy Rules! - had the troop types nearly worked out but Justified Ancients just kept bugging me at the back of my mind. Although I suggested some minor changes at the end of my last replay, the one that keeps sticking in me is to make LO mounted also suffer disorder. This will help a lot get the game moving a bit faster (disordered units are -1 in melee). currently there is only a 2 in 9 change of 2 equal mounted units ever casing damage (a 1 and a 3 or a 3 and a 1). But a +1 difference causes a push back but only disorders CO. So a +1 difference will have an effect between mounted units. I will also extend the support definition for +0 result to include adjacent stands (adjacent stands cannot be in melee - the order of choosing melee to roll for will be important). Currently supported is only for stands with stands in support directly behind. +0 effect is supported stands will push back unsupported stands.
OK now I've just double checked the rules and +0 unsupported push back only happens between foot units. So now I am thinking that it should be extended to all non-skirmisher, not just foot. lastly, for +1, pushed back doesn't happen if you outnumber the enemy 2-1. So I am thinking supported Vs unsupported are not pushed back on a +1 result either (but would suffer all the other results such as disorder) So the summarise my rambling I am going to use these two house rules:
- Mounted LO receive disorder just like CO troops.
- if one or more stands are adjacent (side to side contact or directy behind - not limited to corner-to corner) to a meleeing unit, then the stand is counted as supported for purposes of the +0 result. Supported is not limited to foot, but is available to all non-skirmish stands. Note the number of supporting stands doesn't count - a stand is either supported or not (you don't "outsupport" an opposing stand just because you have more stands in support). A supported stand versus an unspported stand is not pushed back on a +1 result.
last time. Breakpoint for the armies is 1/3 (rounded up) rather than 50% I used in the first replay. So breakpoint for Persians is 4, Byzantines is also 4. A general does not count in working out the breakpoint, but will count as a lost unit if lost (similar to Armati).
Byzantine attempted to move up Ghassanids but only one passed orders. Moved up some heavy cavalry and the Skutatoi.
Lakhmid charges light infantry with no effect.
Moved up all the heavy cavalry in the middle.
Ghassanids past orders and moved up - one in support of the light infantry.
Moved up Skutatoi and supporting heavy cavalry.
Missile fire pushes back elite heavy cavalry.
Light infantry pushes back light cavalry.
Lakhmid charges Ghassanids that fire and evade, one charger continues.
elite heavy cavalry charge and one pushed back. in melee, one flees (and is additionally disordered using my house rules).
Two heavy cavalry on the left charge opposing heavy cavalry. In melee, one flees (and is additionally disordered using my house rules).
Charging Lakhmid pushed back.
Note: this was a a result of the house rule - the melee result was +0 but the Ghassanid is supported and the Lakhmid is not so it is pushed back.
Lakhmid routed by light infantry. Infantry do not pursue.
Note result was +2 but Lakhmid was fatigued so routed rather than fleeing.
Reforms the two heavy cavalry that fleed (and removed disordered - note that this is a 4+ order, without disorder, it could have been a 3+ order to about face).
Some charges that returned fire resulted in pushback.
But in another score for the house rule (but it is because the house rules exists that the move happened anyway) - an elite heavy cavalry moves up to support a disordered heavy cavalry in combat. The general also moves into support. The result was +0 but as the Byzantine is in supported and the Persian is not, it results in a push back.
No picture for turn 4 - don't know what happened to it.
Moved up some heavy cavalry
A Lakhmid charges a Ghassanid, the latter fires and evades.
The one combat resulted in the Byzantine heavy cavalry fleeing.
Successfully reforms fleeing heavy cavalry
Two heavy cavalry charge the elite heavy cavalry with the general. One Byzantine routs but the one with the general gets a pushback.
No picture for turn 5 - don't know what happened to it.
Lakhmid charge opposing Ghassanid, ,the latter receive and fire as if the evade they will be off the table. The Ghassanid stand routs.
Elites heavy cavalry charge opposing heavy cavalry who are pushed back.
Heavy cavalry charge depleted heavy cavalry but no damage received anywhere.
The two generals fight it out and the Persian cavalry and general are routed.
With the general routed, I am assuming all order rolls are at -1.
Elite heavy cavalry charges a heavy cavalry that flees.
Where possible, moved into melee, managed to rout a heavy cavalry.
Managed to rout a heavy cavalry.
Note, the elite heavy cavalry is directly behind a Persian heavy cavalry that fleed last turn. But because charging units are fatigued at the end of the turn, the Byzantines can't charge again. It also meant that the Persian had a chance to reform (which it did), which meant it would not be hit in the rear, and also that the disorder is gone.
Regardless, the Persians have lost 4 stands (3 plus the general) and reached their breakpoint. The Byzantines have lost 3. End of game.
Liked this game a little bit better - maybe it was because I 'got' the tactics and how the interactions worked better than the first game. There wasn't really any more damage. The rules cry out for tweaking. If it was me (and the game would not be JA anymore), I would
- do away with the turn sequence and go with the flow of newer games and do move, missile and combat per stand - this would make the game VERY dynamic!
- Also include an order modifier for adjacent stands - maybe +1 for each adjacent (not behind) stand and can order all at once (must move/charge together). I would increase by one the success number for ALL order types (move/charge/wheel/reform etc). It would keep stands together.
- I would possibly also not do lining up of stands (just a personal thing - never liked it but would keep lining up for a semblance of JA).
- Allow counter charging (as per John Davis experimental rules)
- Get rid of push backs - push backs don't do much in this game; in DBx push backs are important as it opens up the the possibility of support for adjacent melees with the bonus -1 to that melee. Alternatively, give a +1 for one or more adjacent stands and keep push backs.
- Everyone except Skirmishers and LO foot can be disordered.
- Support is defined as if one or more stands are adjacent (side to side contact or directly behind - not limited to corner-to corner) to a meleeing unit, then the stand is counted as supported for purposes of the +0 and +1 result. The number of supporting stands doesn't count - a stand is either supported or not (you don't "outsupport" an opposing stand just because you have more stands in support). Support is applied for ALL stands except skirmishers.